E65: Max Out Wellness with Garrett Rafols

Amy: 00:00:07

What's up human. Welcome to the revenue real hotline. I'm Amy UFF check

Garrett: 00:00:14

more

Amy: 00:00:14

importantly. I'm excited. You decided to join us today. I know you've got a ton of options and I appreciate you. This is a show about all the hard and uncomfortable conversations that arise while generating revenue and how to think, or rethink what you're doing, why you're doing it. And then of course, how to execute differently. And like I said, I'm happy you decided to come along for the. Don't forget to follow the show wherever you listen. So you can be notified each time a new episode drops and do me a favor friend. Don't tell anybody about the show. Let's keep it our little secret. I'm Amy UFF check. This is the revenue real hotline.

Garrett: 00:00:53

Enjoy.

Amy: 00:00:57

All right, Garrett, I'm reading a book. I can't remember who recommended it or how it came to me. It's literally cold flow and it's it's dense, but it separates. The idea of pleasure from enjoyment, like in the enjoy, like in enjoying an experience. And generally when you enjoy an experience is because you're growing right. You stretched a little bit. And so that book is right up your alley. I think you would love it. I I'll send it to you

Garrett: 00:01:23

afterwards. Yeah. Just on the, on the topic of flow, right. Just, let's take a step back to, for those of you who have heard the term flow and just think like, oh, it's on my zone. I totally get it. Right. Yeah. Like I I'm on my zone when I do the dishes sometimes, or I do, you know? Yeah. I can find my flow, whatever, but just so it, to be very clear about what this means definitionally flow is when you have found something that you don't think. A lot of people will get caught up in their own thoughts. I do. I overthink constant am, always thinking and I get caught up in those thoughts. And often that makes me the most anxious. Right? I think there's a saying, I don't know how my budget is. Anxiety is thought without control and flow is control without thought that might be the same, but I think it's so accurately describes what flow is, which is when you found something where you don't have. That's the beautiful thing. That's the goal really is to find those activities where you can just do it's. Why like musicians feel the way that they do. It's why, like when you see someone like an artist, they're not almost thinking they're just doing and they're in that state of flow. And I felt that way a lot when I was a sales rep and I show that way now, when I do the job, I'm, you know, when I'm in the job, I'm in creating these presentations. When I'm reading about this stuff, I found something that I'm really passionate about and it takes me to those states of flow. The time is just passing and it's flying by. Cause I'm just genuinely, and that's the goal, you know, for those of you who struggle with anxiety or, you know, overthinking or even depression find, find your

Amy: 00:02:51

people, number one,

Garrett: 00:02:52

find your flow, being human, being human, right? Yeah. But finding, find that flow state and finding ways to just stop thinking. All these, all these articles, all these business articles, all these people are gonna tell you like, oh, here's how you do it. Here's how here are the seven steps. Here's 14 steps. Wow. 20 steps for about to be happy. Now the goal is just one step. Find something that makes you stop me just for a second. Breathe and get back to what?

Amy: 00:03:14

So, so many things there. I'm with you on that, like all the gurus with the steps, like it's nonsense. The work required to find out what works for you. Is that work with like a capital w. In fact, the whole word isn't just in caps. And when I listen to you speak, Gary, I hear someone who has had a tremendous amount of uncomfortable conversations with themselves. And when you were going through, um, the identity piece, I was reminded of an exercise that I went through and it's how I got to sales enablement. I tell it, interestingly enough, for the first time on it, on, uh, Jeff Bjork's old podcast, the why and the. And so his thing is like, why do you do what you're doing? And so for me, like my, why is I do this for the sellers? Right. I wake up every morning for sales people. And I think this is the greatest profession on the planet. Went done properly back to how I got to sales enablement. Like I went through an exercise where I pulled out my resume. Like I like incorporating career trajectories into sales enablement because. There's not enough of it. Most of the time, most when we think about sales and you know what you can do, you got two options. You can keep selling, or you can be a sales manager. There's a lot of people that myself included. I knew from a very long time that I didn't wanna be a sales manager, like ever. I really, and I was raised by a VP of sales like that. I just wanted no part of it. Anytime you try to like mention this to somebody you're, you're met with like, well, what else can you do where you're gonna make as much. So the feelings of being trapped are very real, but anyway, so I got real with myself and I pulled out my resume and I forced myself to go line by line with every bullet. And I put each of these bullets into one of three categories. Loved it. Hated it indifferent. And I was, I really focused on making sure that the three categories were even right. I couldn't love everyth anything. I, I couldn't hate everything. And what I realized after going through that exercise was that training and empowering, my peers had always been one of my favorite parts. And it was from that, that I got to sales enablement. And I'm also reminded about how similar this is to a, a chapter in a book that you and I both appreciate, which you just lifted up. You were about to say, um, sell without selling out. It's the, why do you chapter, right. And it's wide your buyers buy from you. And so, ah, with that, like, let's talk about the book for a second.

Garrett: 00:05:45

I absolutely love this book. Um, and I read it fairly. Quickly. And then I reread it a couple of times with my notes in hand, but just for context, for those listening and for those not seeing this video that we're on right now, um, at the conference that Amy mentioned earlier in the session, Amy, after seeing me present, gave me this book from Amy Paul, um, spell without selling Alex and I have been listening to Amy Paul's podcast, the sales making podcast for quite some time. So this was right up my alley. And I took the weekend right after that session to read this book. And I just flew through it. I mean, there was just so much. I've read a ton of sales books. Um, this one really stands out because I've never seen a methodology that took such a human to human approach. It's was so thoughtful and it was so practical. Like things you can do right off the bat to make you much more, just generally caring and thoughtful. It's not just a seller, but as a person. Which is what most people will buy from good people. And so that's how I got this book in my hands. And I can't tell you how much value this has given me. Uh, it's given me a lot of validation for a lot of thoughts I've had. Gave them lot of clarity and also gave me a lot of new techniques for how to properly engage with customers and people in general. Yeah. Um, how to ask great questions. Yeah. What does it mean to define value? There are just so many different nuggets here. So

Amy: 00:07:04

I read this book in August, right? So it came out in February. And so that's eight months of having to sit with it all by myself. Um, and so like, I couldn't wait for it to come out to so I could like start talking about it with people. But anyway, I second, every, every word that you just shared and I'm curious, like, how is this impacting the courses or the content that you're creating for your people? It was

Garrett: 00:07:25

such a good time when you gave me this book, because right now I'm working on a project at Jim past, where, where, like I mentioned, at the beginning of the call. Number one, refining the sales process nailing down very clearly what the new sales stages. So that we're, it's more representative of the customer journey. Number two is sales methodology where we're nailing down, which where clearly, um, the actions, behaviors, and activities that reps are expected to use when engagement customers. And lastly, that sales culture. Culture of learning it's culture of coaching and culture reinforcement. Gave me a lot of guidance here for, um, the methodology piece and how to make the other components of that all come to life. For those of you who haven't read the book, you know, much of the content is built off of the four selling pillars of connection, curiosity, understanding generosity. And Andy does an amazing job breaking down what that actually means. We talk about connection. We're talking about a human connection. This is why you do your research. Or this is why you very similar to standard training. You create an upfront social contract. You put the person first before the actual product and try to really gain an understanding of what their objectives and challenges are. Most importantly. It's

Amy: 00:08:31

so different listener. Like this book is a. Your mind's gonna break a couple times over. And then, like I was talking, like I wrote about this, I, I said that this book will change how you sell. Right. How you think about sales and then how you sell, because it's both like a mind bender as well, as about as actionable as you could possibly get. Right. But it also has changed how I read and how I write. And I remember seeing to Andy, like, cuz we did, did you take the quiz on the website? Andy paul.com. How salesy are. I did not. No, you gotta do that one. Cuz I was, I like that. I really, I, I participated in that when I'm been, I stand by my work. It's like, how do you break someone's understanding of connection, like a concept that everybody thinks that they get. And he does it and he does it in like five words or less. And it just, I like just masterful is like the word, but anyway, so now I'm, I'm excited as we're moving into phase two. So I'm, I do partnerships with him now and I was on the book launch team as you know, or whatever leading that, but I am excited to create. Team scenarios where they can move through like a selling in journey together in the context of of course, like bulk sales or workshops or whatever. And so, uh, I think we're gonna have to take this offline because I'm, I you're, you're one of these people that I like really like respect the shit out of on this front. And I, I wanna hear how you're, how you're thinking about this. Okay. There's a lot of people that think and talk wellness. Right. But people aren't in binaries. What it would you say? What's the, your what's the opposite of wellness to

Garrett: 00:10:05

Garrett? You know, I, I haven't thought this through, but the word that comes most to mind, the first word that comes to mind, I don't know. Like again, I have to really reflect on this, on this question, but the word that I just popped in my head was. Wellness. The opposite of wellness is stuck. It's it's, it's, it's stuck in your role. It's stuck doing something. Stepping your cycles and stuck in your behaviors. It's stuck. It's your routine, right?

Amy: 00:10:30

Your cycles, your thought processes, your cognitive distortion. Yeah. All the shit that you, you internalized as a child. Yeah.

Garrett: 00:10:37

You wake up, you had your coffee, you go to work, you hate the job. You get back home. You're excited for the weekend. You're just stuck. And wellbeing is about getting unstuck. And it's uncomfortable getting stuck because it's breaking the routine, you know, like there's, there's, um, you know, at, at Jim pass, we're really trying to rethink and reimagine what wellness needs. And the way we look at is that a, the world is never going back to what it once was. The high good work model is here to stay. These remote jobs are here to stay. And the generations that are coming into the workforce, who are now familiar with this model are going to expect this model forward. So if you, as an organization are encouraging the hybrid. We're going to be behind. The second is that we think that wellbeing is gravely misunderstood. We think that a lot of companies think of wellbeing as customer, uh, employee satisfaction, happiness, perks, and benefits. You know, it's, it's, it's free lunch and being back, don't

Amy: 00:11:28

forget about the consumerism and the weighted blankets in the yeah,

Garrett: 00:11:33

yeah, yeah. And like, do we have that? Like, I, I have experienced that firsthand. Those are fantastic. Which a great thing, but wellbeing for me is feeling like this true place of belonging, you know, a place where I felt like I was most productive being myself. I couldn't imagine a world where I could be fully myself and also deliver results. Most companies want you to separate that split into half work, life balances, your work self, and your personal self leap to the side. But the companies that do this best, and I've been in the company, LinkedIn and here at Jim pats, I can already say it off the bat where they putting wellbeing first and foremost, who you are as individual. You're trying to have those conversations. Trying to develop and create a more purposeful community. And lastly, we're looking at physical, mental health as one, and the same, we're looking at physical and mental health as more, the same, where a lot of solutions out there, right? Who, who, you know, a lot of solutions and offerings out there that are fantastic, but they look at this. Two different fields, the mental wellbeing and physical health. Gym reimbursements, and, you know, getting to find an activity love and also therapy and meditation and self-reflection and coaching. Those are two separate things. We're looking at that as well. The same, you know, there's a concept that I absolutely love talking about that serve. I started to make waves third place, third face. If you haven't heard about it, listeners, this is what the definition means and it's sort to make it's it's it started to make some, some, some decent headway on, on social media accounts. The third place is the place you go to. That's just for you. The first place is work. You know, it's work life, right? First Tyson's working who you are for the world. The second place is your personal life, your family and friends. Right. And the, but the third place is just for you. What do you go to, is it about coffee shop? Is it your room? Is it writing poetry? Is it doing music? Is it finding an activity, right? That's the activity. That's the place you go to just be fully you. And that also caters to the third face. This is a, the Japanese hobby saying, right. Your first face is the one you show to the world. Like I just said, second face is the one you show to your family and friends. That third face is the one that you deal with who you are. It's it's your island and it's your identity. And that's you talking to yourselves. To say with integrity, are you doing everything that helps you become the best person that only you can become? It goes all circles back. It circles back to you, dealing with yourself and dealing with your identity, understanding of whether or not the actions you're doing every single day align with what you believe. And I think that's, that's the way we think about it here at Jim PPAs, where we want you to look at that. Understand that. And act upon it so that you have clarity with where you're going and everyone's journey is different. Everyone's direction is different. But if you have that, then you'll know with confidence that you have this sort of, you can breathe with a side relief that, you know, you have, you have this GPS that only you and you alone have. And that means more than anything else.

Amy: 00:14:24

I love it. Well said. That reminds me this in stoicism. And there's a concept called the inner Citadel. Sounds like that's the third place. And so it's cultivating that safe space inside yourself, which is step one. Right? You wanna change the world. And start by changing yourself and your family and then your community, and like, just expand it out from there. But most don't. However, we clearly are listeners talking to somebody that has gone through that work and that consistent work. And it's hard and it's painful and it's easy to not do. And so Garrett, on the off chance, you haven't heard it yet today, thank you for that. Thank you for doing the earliest. Steps to ask these questions of yourself. Find these answers, and then to start to model them out, not only for your children, but now for teams, your team, and then, and expanding it even further. And so you rock, man. I, I gotta bring you back cuz I wanna talk culture and I wanna talk allyship and, and podcasting and using podcasting for sales enablement so that we can untether people from learning exclusively at the computer, meet sellers where they're

Garrett: 00:15:27

at. Yeah. Thank you so much, Amy, for having me of a show. It, it honestly, it really means the world. To know, appreciate it.

Amy: 00:15:39

That wraps another installment of the revenue real hotline. I'd like to thank my guest for being so damn real and for sharing their insights and for, of course, being so much fun. And I'd like to thank you two listeners. It means the world. And I appreciate you. If you have any thoughts or comments or experiences, you feel inclined to share head straight over to revenue, rail.com. There's a new join. The conversation feature on the right side of the page. I am all damn ears. Final thought. We are introducing a coaching aspect to the show. So anyone who's brave enough to dig into an account strategy or outbound strategy session. That's where we kick things. Please do follow the show wherever you listen to your podcast. So you'll always have the latest episode downloaded. If you want to contact me, I'm at Amy revenue, rail.com. If you wanna follow me on social Twitter is Amy underscore UFF check, and LinkedIn is linkedin.com/amy UFF. Check. This episode was produced by the fabulous Neen Feedler rock, man. And I appreciate you too friend. And of course, whatever you do, don't tell anybody about the show. Let's keep it our little secret. Until next time, all I'm Amy hub check. This is the revenue real hotline, happy selling.