Episode 39: Dale Dupree Creates Familiar Moments with Buyers

Episode 39 - Dale Dupree

[00:00:00] What's up humans. This is the revenue real hotline. I'm your host, Amy Rahab check big. Thank you for checking out the show that was Dale Dupree. Dale is the leader of the sales rebellion host of the selling local podcasts. And. Spirit animal. And today we dig into how to take control of how you sell. I started this podcast to ask the tough questions around how revenue is created, the questions no one else was asking, and to better understand the uncomfortable conversations that.

Every Tuesday and Thursday, I'll bring you a revenue, human shaken up the business of sales, regardless of title. If you like what you're here, don't forget to subscribe to the show or head over to the revenue, real.com website. And let me know how we're doing in the form of a review. And with that, enjoy Dale Dupree.

Welcome to the revenue real hotline. [00:01:00] My goodness gracious listeners. We've got. The original sales rebel himself with us today. Dale, thank you so much for making time for us. Yeah, for sure. Amy, it's a pleasure. And thanks for the invite to come on and speak with you. I'm excited about the conversation. Me too.

So there's very, it's not very often Dale, where I find someone with such a divergent set of beliefs and values about our profession and not only. But a human being that is socializing these concepts and teaching and empowering sellers, not just why they're important and or where the problem came from, but what to do about it.

And on the off chance you haven't heard it yet today. Thank you friends. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, so Dale, if we were to sum up the problem with [00:02:00] why most sellers are not showing up as their authentic selves in one sentence or less, like, what would you say the problem is again, why reps are not.

Being authentic, why they're not behaving like human beings and or whatever. Yeah, I would say that the biggest problem is, is that we have drawn this line in the sand between our personal lives, our business life. And that's typically, uh, the cause of that I should say is typically implemented by leadership at organizations and not necessarily you or me as a 21 year old rep, just getting started in business, but.

The gurus, the, the leaders, the people that are out there talking about like my expertise and how long I've been doing this. And you should listen to my rules and do, as I say, that's what I see as the biggest issue with it, because I truly believe that like gen Z and the millennials would all day long be acting like themselves.

If they weren't essentially put on some type of leash inside of their business [00:03:00] walk and told, oh, that's not that doesn't meet my standards. That's not going to be received very well by your prospect. And you know, all these, these stereotypes essentially about thinking outside the box or being more relative and familiar from the perspective of personalizing things or being authentic as a human and I, but I think the biggest issue is, is that people are afraid of that more than anything and leaders are, and gurus are afraid of is they're afraid of you being better than.

As well too, I think is a huge piece of the puzzle. They don't want you to be better. They want to stay in their, their position of leadership and power. And that's my 17 sentences to sum it all up. Yeah. Okay. So I we're in agreement there. Right? It's coming up against the, your boss, right? Your manager, the safety and security that comes with doing what you're told.

Oh my gosh. Okay. So why do you think. That this is such a hard concept for most sales [00:04:00] bosses to come to terms with. I mean, it's, it's, it's, uh, it's fascinating to me because I, you know, you see this as being the, the massive blocker and, you know, as someone that had learned to sell, like their authentic self.

But in a similar way where the you did where, you know, you're met with a lot of resistance, it's an uphill battle internally and, or, you know, you've got to learn how to sell internally as well as sell externally. So I feel you, but like why is this such a difficult concept for most sales bosses? To come to terms with, and, or seeing that it is their actual, like resistance or, you know, this strict adherence to the process and predictable results, even though those results are inferior.

Very, very little like how I, it just seems so obvious Dale, like what is going on? Yeah. And I think that's the thing is that most people say, well, shouldn't this [00:05:00] be obvious and shouldn't it be an easy fix? Well, here's the big problem. And this comes from somebody that's been on both sides of the fence and that what I've seen on one side of the fence for a billion dollar organization is that.

They were built, you know, in the sixties, the seventies, the eighties, the nineties, typically in most cases, there's not a lot out there that have just been built other than Tesla and people that are doing it completely different by the way. Right. Um, and so the problem is, is that so many people have this old guard mindset and here's the other side of it too.

It like, imagine that the same people that. We're in those big companies, doing those big revenue dollars that in 2021, they're most likely getting a job. They're leaving those orgs GE whatever else. And they're going to different organ startups, uh, different organizations, different verticals, different marketplaces.

There's, there's a lot of shifts happening, but their ideas that. They don't like take talk because you know, their kids waste all their time on it. They don't like video games because it's self-serving and it doesn't make [00:06:00] any money. Right? Like that's their mindset, little, do they know that there's a thing called Twitch that 18 year old kids are making millions of dollars on that as the thought process too.

So there's, this is, this is how to sum that up. The best is that for a very long time, business has been driven by numbers, by revenue, by activity. And it's been done like that because. For the most part when an organization or a corporation begins, it has to go out and educate the public and the stereotypes of sales reign to Supreme, especially in the seventies, eighties and nineties.

Wear a suit, go out with a talk track, convince somebody to buy something who cares. If it's good for them, we'll just pretend like it is. Or we'll say that's what we desire, but we really don't. We just want their money think of cigarettes. Right? Think of that whole tobacco industry there, it was heavily driven by sales and marketing and telling people like this makes me a better football player, right?

Like this pack a day of these marble reds. Right. Y. Yeah, but it's the truth. Right? And so the problem is, is that in this day and age, those same [00:07:00] leaders or people that have been cultivated to lead by those leaders all think it's a numbers game. Right? Cause people even say to me, when they they'll say things like Dale, I believe.

And the relationship aspect of the rebellion of the things that you preach from that perspective, the creative side, I believe in all that, but it's still a numbers game and that just drives me up a wall. It's only a numbers game. If you want it to be a numbers game. If I want to, if I have 20 people that I want to do business with, the problem is.

They're probably not going to do business with me because that's what I want, not what they want, but if I've targeted 20 people that are V like from a strategic standpoint that are very highly, highly likely to at least have interest or a need for my product. And if I'm giving them an experience, I'm like anybody else in the industry, in other industries, period in their lives.

They're going to listen to me, they're going to be at the very least open to a meeting. Hey, we use somebody else. We've used them for 20 years, but I've never seen anything like this. And there's some, I feel something. And so I'm going to [00:08:00] give you an appointment, right? So the thought being and Stu Heinecke and I actually share a belief in this, and he was my silent mentor where, where, uh, you know, all the way up until about 2017.

And then I had some LinkedIn fame and I actually met the guy and now he's like a real mentor to me. They were just pretty awesome. But yeah. But so I, I speak for myself, but I know that he believes this too, which is that it's easy to have a hundred percent get a meeting ratio. It's easy to do that. It's, it's different when we think about the result, for sure, because not everybody's going to do business with you, but to get the meeting is pretty simple.

And the problem is, is that most people think the literal opposite of that, they think it's impossible to get them. And you have to play the numbers because if you don't, you're not going to get one. Yeah. Okay. Wow. Fucking preach, man. I couldn't agree more. Couldn't agree. More. Couldn't agree. More. Couldn't agree more.

Okay. So I I'm tempted. I really want to dig into this concept of [00:09:00] strategic targeting. And like how to execute that for the listener. Right. But I'm also very curious about your take on this core. Like, let's call them the core competencies of a conversation and what skills a human being should be working on, developing to level up their ability.

To converse, um, and, or be curious, understand at a richer and deeper level. I think generosity is another thing that requires planning and also can, and should be automated on the backend. But, you know, that's my kind of automation for selling. However, Ah, okay, so let's go into this, like what kind of blend when, when we get into the actual opportunity, right?

And now we are looking at giving and delivering on a strong buying experience. Right? [00:10:00] If we break that down to the common denominator, it really comes down to the conversations. And so from your experience in, within your community, what kind of. Direction. Do you give to your members about what those skills can or should be and then how to acquire them?

So a lot of people would say they're inherently. To humans, right? So particular types that like some people care more than others and that it's really hard to teach somebody that, well, this is the thing that I tell everybody is that I tell everybody that if you're a human you're inherently good, you inherently have something built into you.

That wants to do good as well, too, whether you recognize it or not. It's our choice every day to be the person on the road that is flicking somebody else off. That's cutting us off. It's our choice every day to see a car on the side of the road, not able to see. And watch them push their car into a parking lot going, I probably could have gotten out, but now I'm too busy, right?

So these are our choices, right? [00:11:00] The number one characteristic trait that my father taught me that is inherent inside of us. And that we just have to tap into is servant leadership. Sometimes it comes in the form of picking some guy or girl up on the side of the road with their thumb out. And by the way, I don't advocate hitchhiking or hip picking up hitchhikers.

But I'm telling you right now that I have experienced. Fulfillment and connecting with people on a raw and non-processed level, where instead in the moment of the abstract moment, being able to meet someone where they are and, and developing a relationship through how they are perceiving the world in that moment with, without an agenda, without trying to change their mind and having a very servant leader mindset during the process.

Because if we truly want to become servant leaders, both men and women at. It all genders of that animals, uh, people that identify as animals. I want to, I don't want to forget that when this wall too, I had a friend tell me recently that he was going to start identifying as a cat, shout out to you. My, my guide.

Do you? [00:12:00] And so the thought process though, is, is that if we really want to be better people, we have to stop doing everything for ourselves. What I do when I say that is cause people challenge me on this. They go, how can I be better at helping people if I'm not working on me? Well, of course, you've got to start somewhere.

You have to be a servant leader to you, but you need to understand that the biggest fulfillment will come in the form of, of means and ways that you do not get any kind of, of gratitude from, or put, have a spotlight put on you because of it. Those are the moments when you go home and or what you tucked yourself into bed, or where you go back to your family.

And in your mind, you go, no one will ever know what I just did. And except for the person that I impacted and even they won't know my name, but they were impacted by what I did for them. And that brings me a massive amount of fulfillment because I believe, and I know that when I'm in trouble and I have the same type of needs, someone will come and help me as well too.

And [00:13:00] a lot of people hear this, Amy and they think. Bro you're like on some next level hippie stuff. Right. Should I go get my, my copy? I don't own a copy of the secret, but if I did, I would, I would bust your chops about it. Continue, please continue people. Don't see my hookah that are listening right now and my sandals.

So, but the, cause I am a very holistic person, but like here's the thing. My dad, he died at 60 years old and he was a salesperson for over 35 years and he owned his own business for 29. And at his funeral, there was thousands of people and the audience, and it was one of the most overwhelming things that I've ever stood up and looked at it because I didn't recognize half these people.

And half of these people, like we didn't even know about and didn't know the stories of how my dad had impacted them, because my dad didn't go around telling everybody about all the good things he did. And because I'm sure that my dad also had good things, he did that failed. And I'm sure that my dad also had moments in his own life where he did need help and no one.

But the majority of my [00:14:00] dad's life was built around this identity of how can I serve my community in a capacity that brings fulfillment to that community that I know will fill me up as well, too. And that we'll continue to, to work in others and build a legacy. And I experienced that. And so you can't argue with me about this point.

You can't tell me I'm wrong. You can't because it's my experience first and foremost, but it's vicariously through someone. The built it, it has nothing to do with even what I've built. Even though I have experienced that myself at 36, you know, the last 10 years or so, I have experienced a lot of what comes of this type of mindset and the shift in thinking, but it is developed.

It has to be, if you don't have it currently, you have to start by looking inward and saying like, where am I too selfish in life? Where am I? Where am I. In a place where like, there's a, non-negotiable like, I don't negotiate these things. Right. You have to sit back and you have to look at those things and say, do I do that?

And do I feel that way? Because it helps me or because it serves a greater purpose [00:15:00] and, and really sitting back and analyzing that is where you start. Okay. Wow, lots to impact there. Um, I was raised by a sales person, turned business owner to my grandparents, um, who have both passed, helped a tremendous amount of human beings, escape Eastern Europe, uh, during communists years and, or earned money, send it back home, whatever, same kind of thing.

Right. If you wake blind, wrapped around the building and I'm with you on, there's no words to describe. What that looks like right when you're experiencing that. And so I'm sorry that you lost your father. Like, I can't even imagine when I also, you gave me the chills when you were describing that. All right.

Friends. So this mindset that we're speaking of the way, I think of a barrier for many, um, when it comes to digging into our thoughts and our feelings is an ability. W we try to skip the step, which is [00:16:00] figure it, learn how to stay, present, learn how to get present. And there's a lot of, um, ways and tools and techniques to do that, but there's no one size fits all.

And so for anybody that's working on that particular step in their journey, I would look at, um, stillness is the key by Ryan holiday, I think is a, is a great place to start. Right. But in order for you to give yourself, uh, Uh, an at-bat right, or a best chance of succeeding at really getting real with your thoughts.

Right? You gotta learn how to be present with them as they're happening. That's the first thing, the second thing, once you're there, once you're in presence, now it comes down to what is this mindset and how does that relate to how I'm showing up at work? And I think that it can easily be summed up by, um, looking at the difference between a persuasion based selling approach versus an influence.

Based approach. And I think Dale, I don't know if he would agree that, [00:17:00] that these are separate things, but most, a lot of gurus will have, would have you believe that they are the same thing. And that is nonsense. We, most of us, um, if you've spent a hot second on a sales floor at all, right, have been conditioned to believe that our job is about persuading.

And we need to believe that we need to be taught that because we're operating a sales process that has been designed to deliver value. For the company, right? Deliver X amount of revenue at a certain amount of time, nevermind that this is in direct breach of like a principle process, which is value flows at the pull decline.

Anyway, this is why we're taught to persuade, figuring out how to unravel. Oh, like you've written wanting an outcome and trying to persuade the buyer or the human being that you're speaking to towards that outcome. I think that's where the sleaziness comes in. And so I don't know, Dale, would you agree with that?

That, like, that's the mindset that you're looking to suss out. And [00:18:00] from there you can, you know, your, your, the actions that we take that we're not proud of at the end of the day as you described, um, we'll, we'll start to fall away. However, if you try to change the actions without addressing the mindset, It's an uphill battle.

Yeah. Because I think that, that persuading also, like, to me, it's very similar to convincing, right? Like people shouldn't need to be convinced. They can make up their own mind if they need to be convinced, they'll ask you. Right. And then the moment of them asking you to convince them my favorite thing to always say.

To someone in that moment is no thank you because I want to have a better relationship with you than the guy that can come in here with the silver tongue. I want you to understand that, that my words have impact you to a point that you need to be convinced because it's so non-traditional to do business with a guy like me and you're stepping so far outside of your comfort zone and the box that you're used to, that, that you need me to push you a little bit further.

Well, I don't push. Until you pay me is the bottom line, right? You, but you have, you [00:19:00] have experienced in this moment, an instance of like what it looks like to get there. And that to me is actually influence, like you said, I've influenced this person to get to a point where like they're questioning their own.

Tactics and ideas and identity. And not to say that that's what we're trying to do with people, but listen, like some people need it is absolutely. Yeah. We want them to have ask themselves the hard questions that are easy not to ask. Yeah. Or that most people do not ask or have posed because that is the essence of differentiation.

Please continue. Sorry. No, you're good. You're good. I love your thought there. So, because the, the, the problem is, is that so many people will say, well, it's ignorance. It's like these people don't understand a diff they don't know a difference. And so we should have compassion on them and we should think differently about the way that they see it.

Like, no, what we should do is we should like expose. To themselves, because everyone's afraid of doing that. Everyone's afraid of doing that because they think it might offend somebody or cause that person to have disbelief in themselves like, look, this is the thing, is [00:20:00] that me? As a, as a, as a human being, I'm always looking for ways to become better for myself, for my family, for my community, for the legacy I'm leaving.

And if someone were to come to me and give me real honest and raw. 'cause I, I am less focused on this hardline opinion that I have of everything I'm less focused on what outcome I want. Right. More so than I'm focused on the idea of maybe things are gonna change at some point. And I'm, and I'm down for the adventure of that.

I am open to the awakening of what could be. And if we have that kind of mindset, it's not like I'm not telling people to like try every religion and eat every kind of food. Even if you have a disorder where you can't or you hate certain textures, I'm not telling you to force yourself to do anything or that you have to do.

Um, you know, that I go through this enlightenment phase to become somebody who you believe in. And actually like in the first place, what I'm telling you, I was like, dig deep inside yourself and say, okay, I as Dale Dupree and weird. [00:21:00] And, and, and that's something that I have to come to terms with for myself.

Cause it's not necessarily something that people are or that they like to admit that they are in the first place I, as deal to pray. I'm also somebody that struggles with depression. I'm winning that battle. But, but it is a, it is a battle that will weigh John, like, like a never ending war until the day I leave this.

And hopefully it will be on my own accord or natural causes outside of suicide. And, and because that's what depression leads to. And if I can't talk about that kind of thing, I will silently slip away into madness and into darkness and I will be gone. The true Dale will be gone, even if I'm still on this earth, I'll be 65.

And I'll be the guy that you didn't ever get to really know deep down in. And that's the problem with these things is that people are afraid. They're afraid of the truth. They're afraid of something being different or better than what they're currently doing. They're afraid of stepping outside of the box.

They're afraid of risk because with risk, you know, comes like sometimes starting over sometimes, [00:22:00] you know, hitting full stop and reset on things that they've created so far. And that's the, I think that's the biggest problem with. Is is that we, we are very, very, very, uh, accustomed to comfort when we get to it, but talk to a guy or a girl that grew up in poverty and, and is now, you know, 24, 25, and like working the ranks of a giant engineering firm and almost making six figures, that person will tell you that the last thing they will ever be caught doing is sleeping and comfort.

Right. Instead they will constantly be pushing themselves. Be. Racing toward discomfort. And that's why there's such a big discrepancy in general, between people on this earth is because so much of, uh, of what we have been conditioned for, especially in the year 20, 21. Right. Thinking about the pandemic for, for a hot minute.

Right. So much of what we've been conditioned for is convenience and ease. So like for an entire year, you sit at home. And for some people, it was less like for us in [00:23:00] Florida, it was like three or four months. Right. But, but, but again, like we had some pretty shitty stats about the children dying, like, well at a far greater rate than other states, but you know, who's counting.

I don't think the states count. I don't think anybody's guess, but think about it for a second. If you, if you sit back and you, and you ponder on how. Found a way around the conveniences and the control that life has on you in the first place, your phone gave you access to everything you S you, you did not lose that access.

Amazon delivery brought you your groceries. You still got. Things got better digital, more personalized, more customer experiences, faster, less, less errors. Um, okay. I, so I ha I have to pause you there for a second for a couple of reasons. One, I told you the butterfly story, right. As a kid. Yeah. Okay. So there's that.

All right. Listeners, as you know, right. Um, [00:24:00] The very feeling of discomfort is a relative thing. And it isn't in my experience, the most important competitor, if you are to thrive in this profession that we should focus on is not the one that's selling a similar piece of tech or service right down the street.

It is not the. Sitting across the floor and, or, you know, at a computer somewhere else, but that, you know, our, our dashboards that have been poorly designed by, by human beings who don't, uh, are not familiar with, you know, some of the principles of coaching individuals let alone coaching a team. Right? So that toxic competition, it's not that the only competition that matters is focusing on showing up today and being a little bit better.

Then yesterday's version of yourself. [00:25:00] That's what matters. And so I, that long diatribe is to say that discomfort is something that you can get better at, um, navigating through to the point where it doesn't feel as uncomfortable any longer or. More interestingly, when you have a dad, that's asking you crazy questions.

Like when did you feel butterflies today? Right. Um, you learned to interpret it differently. And so that is that that will certainly help. And I would encourage everybody that is looking at, um, leveling up on this. To look at the, go back through your call, logs or conversations, and look at the questions that you're asking.

How many questions are you asking of the buyers before they ask you one? How deeply are you going? Um, down into like each thread of, of topic. How wide are you, how, how able are you to speak around the business problem? Right in the context about how long this problem has been, how long [00:26:00] have you ever tried to solve it?

Before what happened? Whatever. Anyway. And so the questions that you pose through these conversations, um, that's, that's where I would point at and where I would focus on when, when trying to level up on that front. Do you have anything to add to that deal? Yeah, I would say connect with people before you try to sell them your product or try to ask them questions.

Qualify them to buy your product, but just connect with the person on the other end. Most of the things that you can learn about companies and people is found on the internet before you ever get them on the phone in the first place. So let's talk about that. The strategic you'll succeed well said, connection is a precursor to conveying curiosity.

Um, because if you haven't connected, then, you know, whatever kind of questions you ask us to, like you haven't earned the right to stick your nose in there. Well set after curiosity, in my opinion, I believe is understanding right. Then it comes down to how well are you understanding the information that you're hearing more importantly, how [00:27:00] understood do you make your buyers feel?

Um, okay. Dale strategic targeting.

One of my favorite stories. So I was at ADP. I stock them out. I think I talked about this, but we were selling time entry systems. Um, and so I on top of payroll, right? So it was like all the rage we've had these biometric hand scanners anyway, blah, blah, blah. I. I thought long and hard about the business problem, right on what happens with punch cards, right?

You have friends punching people in, so employers are losing time, whatever, but there's also a regulatory component. Anyway, I dug into which, uh, Which government entity was responsible for like enforcing these time and labor violations and came up with a list of companies that had been hit with those violations the year prior and created a marketing campaign around it.

And again, people [00:28:00] look at me deal when I talk about how you can get that conversion rate to a hundred percent from outreach attempt to meeting set. And I don't think I've ever heard somebody like, say that. Back or even first, but I'm I'm I pose my old story because my story is a little stale. Like I'm curious, like how are you teaching people to strategically target in a way that gives them that conversion rate at that first point?

And do so like teaching it in a way that is like, it applies to lots of different types of sales and, or, you know, industries and like that kind of shit. Like what are, what are the, what's the framework that you walk somebody through to be able to do that on that level? Great question. Because there are there's to be people.

We might look up Jane DOE on the internet before we reach out to her and find. Podcasts and blogs and articles and all kinds of really good detailed [00:29:00] information that frankly, in most cases, I should just add this as well, too, that most salespeople pull the wrong stuff out of. And that's the understanding part.

Yeah. Right. So. That, but, but all the same, there are people like John Smith who don't have an internet presence. They don't have, there's not a bunch of news. They have a very locked down LinkedIn and Facebook page. You can't even figure out where they went to college in some cases. Right. So where do you start with that strategic outreach and personalized?

Th that said same outreach and conceptualize this a hundred percent appointment close. Well, it starts with the non-traditional approaches and concepts. So I'll give you two examples. Well, first off, know your product, know what it does for people. Okay. On all fronts, understand the stereotypes, understand the common, um, problems that people typically have, or they've experienced at some point, maybe they don't currently have them, but they know them [00:30:00] understand that the, the commonalities that you have with them through you both know the process to some extent as well too, and then use all of that information to create familiar moments for people that are very relevant.

So. One example of that would be, I'm going to give two, one would be, this is like the all in I'm going to get an appointment. I don't care what you say. Concept I made, I did about 25, 20 cardboard cutouts. Um, I get that number wrong all the time, but I think it was, I'm pretty sure it was 20. I think I made 25 and I get five to my friends.

If I recall, um, we test it out market research. She couldn't give anything to buyers that hadn't been a quality controlled. It's funny is that when you have a bunch of stuff like this in your office, people go, can I have one, you know, they like ask that question, like yeah, take it. And then you forget. And they're like, oh, do you want to, with 80 bucks on that?

What I did is I created a [00:31:00] cardboard cutout of myself and kind of this like cartoon fashion using a very real, I use a real picture. Like I did a real photo shoot of me stabbing a copy machine with a sword, a golden copy, or in the middle of the woods. That's what we started with. And we kind of just dumb that down into like a setting and an experience and a playwright basically, and set the stage for the first introduction to about 20 people.

And I sat all 20 of, I said 19 appointments on the first round. Um, and I got the 20th appointment. Eventually it took a little bit more time, but no matter how you spend that, I got all my points and win every deal, but I got all my appointments and, and what we did is we used again, like, sure, that's an audacious, uh, marketing.

But the thing is, is that it causes curiosity. What is this? And why is this here? How do I, and how do I figure out that process? Well, when it's all spelled out to right there in front of them, with things such as QR codes or letters that were attached, then it's easy for them to kind of deduce and get down to [00:32:00] business with it and decide whether or not they want to get back to me.

But at the same time, when I use things that are very familiar to the prospect, Hey, I bet you've never had someone cold call you in a way that made you feel important that most of the time people do things like. Walk in the front door, leave a card. And then how do you for the next 30 days until you tell them no, and then they just take 30 days off and show back up again.

And that was the mindset essentially, of what I created in that messaging and what I, what I've made for these people was like, I feel that you deserve something better than just me walking into your door. Front door asking for your information, treating your receptionist like garbage, but instead of giving you an experience and, and, and furthermore, what people saw for themselves as well, too, that we didn't have to spell out.

Everybody wants to stab the copy machine. Every. Even when they're in love with it, they remember the problems that they've had with it in the past. So [00:33:00] we created something that people would look at and recognize as something that they've like daydreamed about doing as well, too in the same process. So another campaign though, that we did, that's very effective and we still use today inside of the rebel.

This is what we call a letter campaign. And this can have anywhere between five to 12 touches that are, that are physical and then it, and then attach to that. It can have another, anywhere between 15 and 40 touches, you know, that are virtual, that are over the phone that, you know, so on. The letter campaigns are they're simple.

And each one of them, again, relates back to the buyer in a way that's very generic, quote, unquote, without like dumbing down the letters where it tells people things like, Hey, 90% of the marketing you get is garbage. And so I pre crumpled this one to make it easier for you to throw away or Hey, 90% of the stuff that you do.

You're not it's disinteresting and you're not going to use it in the first place. So I made this one into a coffee coaster, so that at least we're doing something good for the environment here. And I, [00:34:00] I, there are other things, the ones on top of bed and some that are like, you know, laced with passports and stamps that say, Hey, this thing has traveled all over the world, trying to find you because you're so busy.

Uh, but Hey, it's finally made its way onto your front, into your, into your desk. And maybe we should get together because of that. It could be fake, right? Those messages are very common in any industry with any buyer. And so essentially we teach people this, this principle of causing curiosity, interrupting the typical patterns and finding familiarity and familiar moments with people so that they can connect with you.

I, you know what, God damn Dell, like, I was just saying this the other day, like, we don't know. Talks about how effective, like intrigued is like a good old fashioned cliffhanger. That was one of my favorite fucking tactics that, and making people laugh my favorite line when I would feel trained, I think I feel trained like about a thousand people in my career, but I, and I would say this all the time, like, you don't even need lots of jokes.

You just got to come up with a couple that work. And so mine was like, you know, when I would ask permission right. [00:35:00] To, to call them because I'm not just going to call them, but I would, I would throw in there that I, I. Don't have skills on my body. This is why we're here saying hello. And I also, I promised I shower daily and it worked right every time.

And that, that laugh right. That chuckle, it always carried over for when I did make the call. Okay. So Dale, that was fucking awesome. All right. So I know you've got some big news with the community by way of a piece of tech and refuge. Before we talk about that, which is awesome. And I can't wait for this conversation to be done so I could go sign.

It be like immediately and you think I'm kidding? Like, I I'm writing a challenge right now for, for somebody and I'm like, uh, okay. Yeah, no, this is what's happening right after. So we'll talk about that in a moment before we do final two questions. What is the most uncomfortable conversation you've ever had to have in a revenue context?

Uh, I think in general, like talking about money is uncomfortable. Um, [00:36:00] but I, I could say. Probably the most uncomfortable conversation I had with somebody was, uh, when they were kind of posing to me, the question of, can I put more money into this deal in order to, to pay down things that might not be attached to this deal.

And they weren't really saying it that way to me, they were kind of masking it, but common sense told me like, this is kind of dirty and I would be essentially, I would be involved in. Maybe helping this person, but ultimately doing something that was wrong. And so I made them actually explain it. I said, yeah, you can do that, but I don't know why you would.

And they said, well it's so the board will approve it. If we do. And we'll give you the deal. That's what they said. And I said, I need to understand that better. That doesn't make any sense. So I think a lot of people probably have been put in situations like this and they didn't know it, but I made the person explain it.

And they actually, what they ended up doing is they called me when I left and they, and they were like, I couldn't really say everything in [00:37:00] front of everybody in there. Um, so this is the deal. And then when he told me after I left, cause that's all I need to contemplate this and come back and make sure that it's something we can do.

He basically, it was like, just do me this solid and we'll give you the business. But, yeah, it's not, I am not playing that game ever in my career, in the lifetime of my career. I do not believe that that this is a healthy conversation for us. I care about you. I want the best for you. And so I'm going to tell you no to this.

And man, was he pissed off? Uh, I still have a friendship with him though to this day. And I think that that choice salvaged that side of things, but, but as, as Bri, the most awkward conversation I've ever had to have with somebody, if I think of sellers, you run into two awkward conversations about revenue and money every day, being bold and transparent and asking the right questions is the best way to be able to have a solid, okay.

You beat me to my next question. One piece of advice about uncomfortable conversations, but you know, I guess three, [00:38:00] but if you want,

oh my God. That's amazing. Okay. So tell me about, tell me about. I like, I know you said it, so, all right, listeners. So Dale's got, uh, obviously the sales rebellion community, right? If you, if you've been living under a rock, right, and this is in some alternate universe, your first time hearing about it, this is a rock and community over a thousand human beings, looking to embrace authenticity community over commissions and or sell like a human being to human beings.

And ultimately leveling themselves up and the profession as they go that said we've got a new piece of tech introduced, um, to help make the process of leveling up more fun. So Dale, tell us more about refuge. Well said. I mean, I think that's, that's it in a nutshell is, is we realized that there's a gap with an individual seller, like number one, not every individual seller can afford 10 to [00:39:00] $15,000 worth of sales training and to get themselves.

Better at their profession and what they do now, there are great resources like LinkedIn and even Twitter and getting into, into people's heads and around the advice that they would give on certain things. But just because they gave some good advice, doesn't mean that you have the playbook. All of a sudden is strategically, you know, everything.

And so what we, we. Deduced in that gap is that sellers need like more than just a place to learn all the time. They need a place that holds them accountable. And that also has community attached to it. But it's fun because selling is boring as hell. So getting out of this mindset of, of transactions and revenue all the time, because sure.

Some people find joy in that. They have, you know, doubled down on the identity of status or things. And so they like getting big checks and, and whatnot. And there's nothing wrong with that, from the perspective of being a salesperson like we're in sales, because we can control things like that. Like, well, I made a lot of money selling copiers, but you never really hear me talk about that as my success per se, because I had so many struggles to [00:40:00] include feeling very lonely at times, inside of my role, even having a manager and having support.

So. The refuge is kind of twofold from that perspective. And one that it's like, Hey, come and seek refuge inside of the rebellion and, and know that you'll have a place to go for exclusive content that, that is pushed out on the dashboard daily, uh, written music and video content. Um, on top of it, being able to just like monitor and see and watch other rebels are achieving things inside of, uh, of the community as well, too.

And then having things like daily challenges. Um, that are segmented from prospecting to just like habits and rituals that you should be working on to mindsets, to sales process, to pipelines. But all of it is kind of like playing Mario, like back in the day, when you first got your super Nintendo where you have to get through certain amounts of levels, unlock enough points to get to the next world kind of thing.

So we have literally gamified the entire system and created an exchange inside of it. Not just so it's not just about being at the top of the leaderboard. [00:41:00] It's also about. Earned enough points to get you coins, the rebel coins. So you can cash in and do things like buy our curriculum that typically costs thousands and thousands of dollars, um, where instead you can do it for nine bucks a month and come in and again, just be active.

That's all we ask, be active, try the things out that we challenge you with become better tie into the slack community that. A thousand rebels and then that you can build community with, and that you can come and ask questions live too, and hear from people like myself or others in the rebellion, including the people that are just training with us, right?

Including the people that are, that are, that are influencing, I should say more than anything, the success of the rebellion, because they are doing it on a daily basis, they are seeing the results and they want to help you as well, too. So, so the refuge is twofold from that perspective, right? It's very community based, but it's also a place for you to be able to seek refuge.

And to have as a daily activity for yourself, you know, just like checking your phone in the morning and looking at the news or whatever you particularly find comfort in. [00:42:00] Imagine going to a place it's a lot more constructive and that takes you into a mindset shift that you need to Monday through Friday before you start the day.

And even during the day, if you'd like as well too, to keep you in that place. Consistency because as salespeople, that's what we need. The boss is consistency for ourselves on a daily basis, in order to conquer the things that are set in from. Hmm. My dad used to say he don't, you gotta give your, your actions and up time to generate results before you stopped doing them.

And so, yeah, to be able to do that with other human beings, like minded human beings that are operating in a completely divergent way than 99.9% of. The white noise. That is the business of sales that is pretty flipping broken right now. If we look at what buyers are saying and or the mental health [00:43:00] of, of our, our people, Dale.

That's awesome. All right. I need you to get off the phone now so I can go get in there and like play around. So it was Brady Dale. How could people find you real fast? Yeah, so you can just Google my name, Dale to free every single social platform. linkedin.com backslash backslash copier warrior, or just search for Dale to, or the sales rebellion, uh, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook Tech-Talk are all at a sales rebellion or leader of the rebellion, I think is on tech doc.

Everything else is ad sales rebellion, and yeah, come find me. Come hang out, come and enjoy our communities. Come seek refuge. Come. Oh, my gosh. Well, yes, sir. I'll see you shortly. Also, also, Dale, thank you for speaking. So freely about mental health and the. Yeah, every story, every story counts. And it means a lot to me personally, as someone that, you know, has a similar type journey, especially on this profession.

And [00:44:00] so, you know, keep doing, you keep shining that light and I'll see you moment. And the in row in refuge, because like, this is yeah. No. Okay. I can't wait for my self to learn. All right, Dale, have a beautiful day. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you listeners. Thanks for hanging around for the remainder of the conversation.

Truth, love and joy friends and happy selling. So that was Dale Dupree on how to take control of how you sell. Be sure to check out Dale's Magnum Opus, the sales rebellion, where I trust you'll find a ton of like-minded humans. I'm looking again to, to shake things up and thank you for hanging out with us today.

It means the world friend, if you've found any value in things discussed, do let me know how I'm doing in the form of a review. And that rats, another installment of the revenue real hotline. I'm your host, Amy Rahab check. Happy selling.